Debt Questions

Hello

Am preparing to go Br in next few weeks.

Got a letter this morning from Moorcroft Debt Recovery – headed up in bold red lettering, Notice of Intended Litigation.

I have been unemployed for 3 months and am about to file for Br. I really want to avoid the pain of having to deal with any further hassle from another creditor.

Should I just write to Moorcroft and tell them I am unemployed am taking professional advice from payplan regarding my debt. Hopefully that will stop them proceeding with a CCJ action until I go Br in a couple of week’s time. I fully understand that the Br will null and void the court action I just want to avoid the aggro of having to deal with it.

Do you think when Moorcroft’s realise I am unemployed that they could be wasting there time and there money?

Gerryman

Hi Gerryman,

I had loads of letters from Moorcroft for the 2+ years I was on my own DMP. Most seemed to be headed "Pre-court Division" or something like that in big red lettering.

When I told them I was stopping payments and going BR, both of my accounts were passed back to Egg, although they were probably glad to see the back of me.

Moorcroft, like all DCA's, can make rational and sensible decisions regarding cases (occasionally). Unfortunatley, like all DCA's, they can also be complete idiots (often). I very much doubt that they would bother going for a ccj, especially if they know your unemployed and in any case they will be sending you loads more "one more last and final chance to pay" letters for a while yet.

CCJ's just a form to fill in and return, they pay the court fee and add it to your debt, you go BR and wipe it all out. I never had a ccj but would have liked to go through the motions of getting one just for the experience.

Regards,
Steve.

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I have had so many of these letters and they tend to go on for months - none have gone far enough to send court papers.

You will probably be alright until your bankruptcy - have you got a date yet?

Moorcroft couldn't organise a p*ss up in a brewery. Their letters are sent by a computer. They never answer when I write to them. I think they have got 10000 debt files and 4 workers, 2 dogs, 4 cats and 2 security men and a cleaner handling the mail and phones.

Moorcroft will stoop to the lowest levels they can in order to get you to pay up. But they don't scare me. This is why their letters include the statement in red letters: Pre-Court Division which is designed to make you think the letter has come from a Court, when it has not. This is totally illegal under the terms of The Administration of Justice Act 1970 Section 40.

The Administration of Justice Act 1970 Section 40 makes it a Criminal Offence for a creditor or a creditor's agent (often a debt collection agency) to make demands (for money), which are aimed at causing "alarm, distress or humiliation, because of their frequency or publicity or manner". Equally, a creditor will be committing an offence if they falsely imply that non-payment of the debt will lead to criminal proceedings; or the creditor pretends to be someone they are not, for example, a Court Official or a Baliff. It is also an offence to send a person a document which looks like it has been sent from a court. (Which Moorcroft's letters clearly do look like).

If you write to Moorcroft, or email them the above, they suddenly dissapear. And you will not hear nothing more from them. Bully Boy Companies like Moorcroft rely on the Debtors ignorance of the Law in order to get you to pay up, but as soon as you start quoting Consumer Legislation and your Legal Rights to them they fall apart at the seams and will stop harrassing you. (That in itself is illegal)

When a Debt Collector sends you a letter stating they have taken over administration of your account, they often do not include any details other than the name of the Company they are working for, and the amount they claim you owe. These letters are in fact illegal, as they MUST include:

* FULL details of the alledged Debt.
* Details of the 'Goods' and/or 'Services' you were provided with.
* HOW the amount they claim you owe them was arrived at.
* A Statement of Account.
* Copies of any and all Signed Agreements from your original Creditor.
* A copy of the 'Deed of Assignment'.

So that is already THREE 'Illegal' points you can throw at them:

(1) Harrassment
(2) Sending letters that apear to have originated from a Court
(3) Failing to provide a Statement of Account and failing to provide Full Details of the alledged debt.

In addition to making these requests of Moorcroft, write to them and tell them this:

To Whom It May Concern

Dear Sir/Madam

I do not acknowledge ANY debt to your company.

I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

1. You must supply me with a true signed copy of the alleged Agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the Agreement under the legislation contained within Section.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) for fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a fully itmemised Statement of Account.

2. You must supply me with a signed true copy of the Deed of Assignment of the above referenced Agreement that you allege exists.

3. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original Creditor or not under Section 189 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant Statutory Authorities.

As you are aware, a 'Credit Agreement' that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the Consumer Credit Act and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

Your License to operate as a Debt Collection Agency could be revoked if you fail to adhere to my requests and I take Legal Action against you.

Take note at this stage, that any legal action you may contemplate taking against me will be both vigorously defended and contested.

Yours Sincerely

If the letter does not include the above documentation, write back to them or email them and tell them you have no intentions of paying them a single penny until they can provide you with the above Documents. Give them 14 Working Days in which to do this:

"Therefore if I am not in reciept of the above documentation by no later than 12.00 noon on (insert date which needs to be 14 working days from the date of your letter or email) I shall consider this matter closed herewith. Any further documentation sent to me after this date will be forwarded onto my Solicitor to deal with"

Tell them that until they can provide you with this documentation, they are NOT allowed to take any "Further Action" (which they may have threatened to do in their letter) against you, as if they do, they will be commiting a Criminal Offence.

"If you fail to provide me with the above documentation by this date, but continue to send me further demands for payment, you will be commiting a crimminal offence, and I shall not hestitate to inform the appropriate Statutory Authorities, including my own Solicitor"

I've had many dealings with the moronic idiotic imbociles who work for Moorcroft, but I just play them at their own game, even to the point of sending them my OWN Invoice charging them £12.00 per day EVERY day for my time in dealing with them, and I do this until they write to advise that they are no longer dealing with the matter, and that they have passed your account back to their 'Client', your 'Creditor'. (They will not do that incidentally, as they have a strange policy of not putting anything like that in writing. You will simply not hear from them anymore.) I then tell them they have 14 Working Days days from the date of my letter to pay up, or I will pass their details onto a PROFESSIONAL Debt Collection Agency to pursue the matter. (Strange as it may seem, but I get a great deal of pleasure from doing that )

You can em@il Moorcroft: enquiries@moorgroup.com

REMEMBER: A Debt Collection Agency has NO additional powers in which to recover the debt other than the same powers as the ORIGINAL Creditor. And by being in pocession of your Personal Details WITHOUT your consent, they could in fact be in breach of The Data Protection Act. Throw that one in their face as well for good measure!!

If the letter states that you must phone such an such a number, and this number is prefixed with 0845, or 0870, or something similar, (Moorcroft's is 0161), email them first and state you will ONLY contact them by telephone IF they provide you with their FREEPHONE Number. (I'm sorry I don't have Moorcrofts to hand now), trust me they DO have one, and INSIST that that is the ONLY way you will call them as you cannot afford to call expensive 0870 (or whatever) numbers. Also, IF you DO telephone them, RECORD the call (thats quite easy to do if your handset has a loudspeaker facility), but remember to advise them at the start of the call that you will be recording the conversation. Depending on which 'Moorcroft Moron' you get to speak to, they will either: (a) Agree, (b) not agree, in which case advise them that in that case, you cannot continue with the call, and hang up, or (c) they will hang up on you. IF they do hang up on you, make sure you make a note of the time and date they terminated your call.

TIP: Do not be tempted to raise your voice, swear or shout at whoever you are speaking to as they will probably hang up on you, and by doing so you are only stooping to their level. Keep calm, and talk with an air of authority which implies you know what you are talking about. (even if you don't). As I assure you the imbeciles at Moorcroft do not.....they have no idea of the Law.

Incidentally, if you DO telephone and you ask to speak to A.J.Martin (Debt Recovery Manager) (the person whose signature appears on all letters sent by Moorcroft), you will be told that "he is in a Meeting" He appears to ALWAYS be "in a meeting"

You could also invite them to send your Account back to their 'Client', to whom you will be happy to deal with as you are not obliged to deal with a 'Third Party' (I'm not sure if that is actually correct, but what have you to lose) Of course your original Creditor will not want to deal with you anymore as in as far as they are concerned, they have 'sold' your Debt on, and as such they are no longer interested in you. But that is not your problem.

And finally, unless your Debt is to your local Council for arrears of Council Tax, or you are behind with payments on your TV License, both of which you could end up in prision for, it is NOT an offence to owe money, and most Debts fall into the catagory of 'NON-PRIORITY', which means that Debt Collecters actually have very LITTLE power in which to recover a debt. They will make you think they have more though by using certain tactics, (like sending out letters that state: 'Pre-Court Division'), to try and get you to pay up, many of these tactics are actually illegal......so don't worry.....just treat them like they treat you, and they go away.

PS: Remember to take photo-copies of ALL Written Correspondence you send.

Welcome to the Forum Gazza! That must have took you ages to post all that................but what you wrote is brilliant, well done!!

Hi. Well, it took a while I guess. I feel so strongly about these so called Debt Collectors and the way they try to scare people into paying up.

Whilst the Law has changed quite a bit and the Debtor now has more protection, still not enough is being done to clamp down on Bully Boys like the Morons at Moorcroft.

But they really don't bother me in the slightest. Once I have used the information in the letter to reply, their corrospondence is nothing more to me than emergency toilet paper.

If you stop to think about it, they send you a letter with no details whatsoever, but simply claim that you owe *X* amount of £'s to Company *XYZ* with NO *proof* to back up their claims. So what is to stop you from sending THEM a letter claiming that THEY owe you *X* amount of £'s? Its tit for tat as far as I am concerned and this is what I do.

I had a letter from Moorcroft once, claiming that I owed 'Natwest Insurance £77.89'. That was the only information in their letter. On this occasion I decided to telephone them and I asked to speak with Mr A.J.Martin, (he was of course "In a meeting", he is ALWAYS "in a meeting"), in order to elaborate on their claim. The Moorcroft Moron that I was speaking to asked me what I meant by that. And I said to him, that in their letter they claimed that I owed Natwest Insurance £77.89, but WHAT was this *insurance* cover for?: Their letter did not specify. It simply said "Natwest Insurance". So was this Car Insurance? Holiday Insurance? Life Insurance? House Insurance? Pet Insurance? Contents Insurance? Breakdown Insurance? Van Insurance? Health Insurance? Dental Insurance? Travel Insurance? As to the very best of my knowledge I have NEVER taken out any form of an Insurance Policy with Natwest.

To which he replied, he had "no idea" as it did not mention any "details" on his system. So I told him that in that case, he needed to find out from his *Client* (Natwest) and then get back to me when more details DID appear on his "system", as I was not aware that I had taken out any Insurance policies with Natwest. This he agreed to do, stating that he would "put" my "account on hold", until he had received "more details" from his "client". That was four years ago now, and to date I am still waiting for this Moorcroft Moron to write back to me with further details, but to date there has been no further corrospondence from Moorcroft in reference to this alledged £77.89. I can only assume it is still "on hold". and has been 'holding' for the past four years.......yeah right, of course not, they have realised their foul up, but do not want to admit it and they cannot write to apologise for thier stupidity as they are the most rude and arrogant imbeciles I have ever spoken to.

I know its not easy, and many people react in different ways when they receive these sort of letters, but the best way to deal with these low life idiots is to simply play them at their own game. Send them you OWN invoice and threaten to pass THEIR details onto a Debt Collection Agency if they fail to pay up. I have had several dealings with Moorcroft and that is what I did every time. Ok, I never got any money out of them, but their letters stopped.

At the end of the day, what can happen to you if you ignore these Cowardly Bullies? Your Credit Rating is ruined and you can't get anymore credit. But if you are already in debt, do you really want to take on yet more debt? Of course not, so you have nothing to lose. As long as you keep up to date with your *Priority* Debts (Mortgage, Rent, Council Tax, TV License, and your Utilities), then you have nothing much to worry about.

Remember, Morons like those employed by Moorcroft, like to tell lies a lot. They will send you letters stating "despite numerous requests by us to contact you on the telephone and numerous personal home visits at your Home Address by our Agent, you have failed......".... blah blah blah!! WHAT "home visits" WHAT "phone calls"? Its all Bull Sh*t!! They have done NO such thing. It is not cost effective for them to do so.

If they threaten to send a "Field Agent" to my home, I simply tell them that if they do, that I will contact the Police to advise that there is an unlawful, uninvited Tresspasser on my property, and that I cannot be held responsible for the actions of my Guard Dog.