Debt Questions

Hi. Im looking for advice regarding a debt with the above from 1996. To give a brief history, when i was 21 i worked for a well known company, and was sent on secondment for a few months to a different office. As i was staying in hotel i was provided with application for an amex card, this was done on a joint and several liability basis. Long and short of it is that approx 5k was built up in debt. I got made redundant and stupidly used most of the money the company paid me to clear the amex debt to survive. I have been in an arrangement with their sols stevens drake since approx 1998 and have only missed a few instalments. Each time i miss one they threaten me with a ccj. During this time interest kept building until the statement from the solicitors showed over half a million pounds lol! Anyway, i wrote to them and i did receive a letter back and the account was adjusted. Original debt was approx 9k when it went to solicitors in 1998. I am paying 70 pounds per month. Current balance still approx 6.5k. Interest being charged approx 50 per month. I did cca in dec 2007 and received document from solicitors. It states amex corporate card application form on, and my handwritten address and signature on dated 1997. It doesnt look like a valid credit agreement to me. The company i used to work for have been taken over, but still exist according to companies house. I would appreciate any advice on how to proceed, i have quite good relationship with stevens drake all these years, but debt is not really going down. Amex will not freeze interest. I am looking at the legality of the document i and my manager signed to get this card, to see if they can enforce it against me. They seen confident. I have a scanned copy of this document i can send if someone can help me. Any advice appreciated. By the way, i have paid approx 5k to date. Many thanks. Simon

Well good relationship or not I would only pay them what I could realistically afford each month.
And in this case If your debt is not coming down then it would be at £1 PM.
Then let them take you to court, tell them to go ahead and do it.
At least with a CCJ you will be able to make a realistic monthly payment and most probably get all interest and charges frozen, you will even be able to challenge the amount they allege you owe.
But I doubt for one minute they will take it to court, just probably pass it on to a DCA ,in my case with AMEX this was RMA Resolve who I have to say have been excellent and readily excepted my payment offer through CCCS and even offered me a recent Full & Final at a 60% discount.
Just goes to show how much they buy these debts for ?

I also had an Amex debt handed over to RMA Resove and endorse Everetts comments about their easy going management of the account accepting DMP payments without a quibble.

Many of these agreements to pay back these debts in small instalments are a complete waste of time and you will paying forever. This 1997 debt would have been dead and buried if you had realised that nobody is going to do you any favours in this world.

DCAs love the constant trickle of free money coming in week after week, year after year.

If you want a fair deal with these parasites, STOP paying them a farthing and let them have the hassle of trying to collect and I will assure you that you will get an outcome on your terms. The motto of the DCA is, 'Persisistence always overcomes resistance', maybe it does in their world but not in mine.

DCAs are seriously cost controlled and do not waste a penny. DCAs certainly do not spend loads of time on people who know their rights, they are only interested people they can bully and frighten. Your old debt to them has already been paid, stop paying them anything extra, treat their threats and letters with the contempt they deserve.

I will guarantee that they will not take you to court because spending any money on legal fees would be a first. I say a first because these parasites aren't interested in gambling a lot on the chances of a little. I have never known it to happen in the past and the first DCA to start suing people without assets will be bankrupt before you can say 'Alistair Darling'.

I am in total agreement with Simont23.

I am convinced that I am in a very good position with my twenty five creditors because of my determination not to let DCA's dictate their terms to me.
Twenty three of my creditors have stopped ALL INTEREST .... one of my creditors has just reinstated interest after two years of NO INTEREST(Barclaycard) .... and one of my creditors is STILL CHARGING INTEREST, even after three years ... but don't worry, I've never paid them a bean, - nor will I - until the interest is stopped.
All the interest that has been charged to date is meaningless. They'll NEVER get it.
At the rate that I'm paying the debt back, my creditors will NEVER get their money back, so Christ knows how they think that they'll get the interest back as well ... it's just a fantasy figure.
P.S. The creditor is BARCLAYCARD - again !!

In short Simonjd1974, stop pussyfooting about with your creditors and show 'em who calls the shots.
If you've NO ASSETS and limited income, you hold all the aces.

Thanks for your comments guys i appreciate it. Not sure if i painted a wrong picture but the dca here is stevens drake, who are only collecting on behalf of amex, they havent bought debt. Every 6 months or so i have to fill in means statement and send back, stevens drake always forward this to amex for agreement. The original balance was 6.5k- i have paid back approx 5k and the balance is still 6.5k. Presently am paying 70 per month, but only 22 is for reducing the debt, the rest is what they call 'contractual interest'. I have no doubt whatsoever if i stopped paying they would go for a ccj. Feel i dont have any option than continue! I have approx 13 other creditors who i have done self dmp with, started with debts of 25k am now down to about 15k. Apart from this debt i will be clear of all the rest by approx end 2012. Just this one will take years.....

And on my budget i can just afford the 70 pounds per month payment. Just would be good if there would be no more interest added, that way debt would be paid within about 6 years...when i add monthly payments of expiring debts. At present will take approx 17 years

This 'contractual interest' malarkey - presumably you have checked the t's and c's of your original agreement and they have the contractual right to levy it?

I smell a whiff of fundament here - and also is it a credit card or a debit card? Amex do both.


There are other options that you may want to check out - I'd give national debtline a ring tomorrow and see if a time order might work out for you. I'm no legal eagle but this is the reverse of them going for a CCJ - you get a judge to rule on the debt !

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/engla ... ime_orders

If its any consolation to you I have an amex card with my job - its in my name but its a corporate card, when they tried to jack me around with £70 late charges and the like I got the corporate credit controller to to help them understand the error of their ways - cor talk about limbo in under my door with a top hat on - most gratifying - so one small win for us debtors against a patcularly repugnant 'outfit'

The card was a corporate 'charge' card not a credit card. Was designed to be paid in full each month

I suspected as much - if you have not already done so then get the t&c's forensically examined - I think you have a case for 'penalty' charges here. You may have a case for suing the hell out of them - bank charges are supposed to be to cover administrative costs and not act as penalties and although the OFT lost its case recently that does not mean the banks can't be brought to book.

When I battled them as I said I got the UK credit controller (I work for a US owned multi-national) to sort them out for me - is there any way you could do similar?

Again check out that time order info - you could also try posting on Consumer Action group and Legal Beagles. As this is a charge card and does not involve a line of credit I am not sure which portions of the CCA1974, if any' deals with this.

It seems like they have made up their own rules. Amex should have issued a Default Notice for the full amount owing and that figure would not have increased if you had just stopped paying them.

You seem to have been prepared not to deal or question the interest in which case Amex have been on to good thing. Are you a property owner as it seems in a whole 14 years you didn't attempt to get the matter sorted on your own affordable terms. If you got it sorted today, your credit will still be shot for another six years.

Thats the problem - i CCA'd them in 2007 and all they sent me was a photocopy Application form, with no T & Cs. I have never had these - i cant go back to my previous employer, they no longer exist.........

I agree with previous poster i shouldve sorted this out before, the interest they added was astronomical. At one point when Stevens Drake sent me a statement the amount owed was in excess of £500,000 with interest and compound interest plus daily charges..............

Not really sure what i can do - dont want to mess up my credit file with another CCJ, in 3 years i will be clean as a whistle....

Your credit file will not be repaired until the Amex debt is paid.

You need to seriously consider stopping payment and put the ball back in their court. It is a very old debt, you need negotiate a small full & final settlement. Toughen up and you will get a result.


Good Luck

Stone the crows - you're paying them all that interest with no contract that lays out the contractual interest terems! Its possible that the contract was with your former employer and some sort of agreement existed in your personnel rules (internal control procedures) that the person on the card was required to make payment - ususally after expenses had been approved and banked. If this is the case then AMEX don't have a contract with you and its down to them to prove that you owe the money - I bet they can't!!!

Yes you should stop paying but I would once again urge you to contact national Debtline to find out what piece of the CCA1974 legistlation your account would come under.

Under the CCA1974 you can request formally a copy of the orginal agreement - this would put the account in dispute giving you the legitimacy to stop payments. You need to find out how to put this account in dispute and register the fact that you dispute that you owe them any money - you've payed off the balance and they are making up charges and interest on the hoof! I don't know how the CCA1974 covers debit cards - I suspect it doesn't.

AMEX are highly litiginous and to cover your back you should keep an audit trail of all the steps you take and why. One way or another this is likely to end up in front of a judge - but a judge will balance things to be fair to both parties and you need to keep the scales tilted in your favour

Please do consult National Debltine -I've given you the link. AMEX are going to do nothing as long as you keep bunging them each month. A Subject Access Request may be the vehicle that you need to get them to spill their guts on the breakdown of these charges - it costs £10 but you should accompany this with some sort of letter that puts this account into dispute -NDL will guide you with this.

This is one instance where I would welcome them going to court for a CCJ - they would have to prove the debt and you'd at least get a decision on repayments and when it is all paid off! But if this were me I'd take the initiative and instigate the proceedings - time order?

Thanks for all your replies. Will sit down tonight and digest everything and see where i go from here. Simont23 i have got copy of my credit file and this debt does not appear on it (and hasnt since i first checked my credit file in 2004) so it cant muck up my credit file- unless they get a ccj?